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Sunday, December 07, 2008

True patriot shames Canada's self-serving politicians

It is no wonder Canadians are becoming as enamoured of our politicians as Ukrainians are of theirs.

I have long had my own thoughts about the political direction of this country, and thought it prudent to keep (most of) them to myself and off this blog. However, the recent idiocy in Ottawa has driven me to break from that tradition.

My intention was to write a diatribe, but nothing I could write would improve upon a letter sent by a retired admiral to two MPs, Minister Gary Lunn and Liberal MP Keith Martin. It was a heartfelt (if probably futile) appeal for help in getting our politicians to display some maturity and dignity, as well as respect for their office and fellow Canadians.

A copy arrived in my email box yesterday shortly after I heard the author read it on the Roy Green Show on a local radio station yesterday (Saturday, Dec. 6). It was also written about here.

I was discussing it today with a dear friend, a retired senior officer from the Canadian Reserves, who also received an email copy of the letter.

He has a message for the instigator of this disgusting debacle: "Jack Layton, stop pulling Dion's strings."

He remarked that Layton has been planning a coup d'état since October when we last went to the polls. I checked around and found that he was right... although this article (and some of the comments) gave me the distinct impression that this isn't the first time the flamboyant NDP leader has cooked up a coup.

I have a message of my own for Mr. Layton, but it is not polite and definitely not printable. Suffice to say that his comments on air gave me a distinct feeling of déja vu ... right back to the election campaign trail.

To me, there is something inherently chilling about a politician who has no respect for any electoral outcome that doesn't favour him or his preferences. (It's also chilling that even after supporting the government's decision to declare the Holodomor a genocide, some of his party's most fervent supporters appear to be genocide-deniers mourning the death of Stalin(ism), but that's another story.)

Then there's the Man-Who-Would-Be-Prime-Minister. Another one who can't accept the will of the electorate when it is not to his liking. A few weeks ago he threw in the towel as leader of the Liberal Party, but jumped at the offer of a plummier job...especially as it came without the need to subject himself to the nuisance of winning an election. What a patriot.

As for the third member of this destructive, self-serving troika, all I can say is that as a Canadian nationalist, I have never had much use for the Blockheads.

In the end, tho, the fault for this mess really lies with the Canadian electorate. And especially, those Canadians eligible to vote who chose to avoid the polls on October 14th. Of any of us, they have the least right to complain about the government they left the rest of us to collectively decide on.

And as for the current chaos in Ottawa, those on either side of the coalition debacle who did vote do have a right to complain. But big deal. Why not do more than complain? Why not, regardless of your support for or opposition to this coalition, at least closely consider the single issue that succeeded in getting such politically disparate parties in bed together?

Ask yourself: what momentous national concern could unite staunch centrists, socialists, and separatists? Was it a human rights violation? Fiscal irresponsibility? Abolition of unions and/or universal health care?

Heavens, no. Nothing so trivial as any of the above.

It was the earth-shattering prospect of losing a few million tax dollars allocated to their collective political troughs. (Quick, can anyone say "corporate welfare"?)

Just remember, tho, that Canadians voted these jokers into office, either by voting or by abdicating that civic responsibility. Furthermore, some of us even approve of paying for their campaigns with the hard-earned tax dollars of our fellow Canadians, some of whom definitely don't support them.

You want a taste of genuine love of country and democracy? Then read this letter written by someone who truly believes in serving his country, rather than his own ambition and political ideology.

Read it and weep. Because if the leaders (and backers) of this coalition have their way, a taste may be as much democracy as you and I will be enjoying in the near future.


As you both may be aware I contributed financially towards your recent re-election - not because of your Party affiliations but because I know and respect both of you.

Regretfully, I am too old now to serve Canada in any political capacity. However, I did serve faithfully for 38 years in the RCN and the Canadian Armed Forces - including in NDHQ, as a Rear Admiral and Vice Admiral, where I had the honour to serve both under Liberal and Conservative Ministers of National Defence. In every instance they received my complete respect and loyalty regardless of Party.

My father also served in Canada's Navy for 37 years from 1909 to 1946. He commanded several RCN ships and both coasts, and was ultimately the Commanding Officer Pacific Coast during the last three years of World War II.

His father was Speaker of the House of Commons, during the Laurier Government, then was Minister of Inland Revenue, then Minister of Marine and Fisheries (in which capacity he became the founding Minister of the Royal Canadian Navy), then served as Justice of the Supreme Court of Canada, and ultimately died in office as Lieutenant Governor of Quebec. He devoted his entire life to Canada.

On behalf of three generations who have devoted their lives to Canada, I unequivocally condemn the power grabbing political charade now taking place in Parliament.

We are witnessing a deplorable and juvenile scene which demeans its participants, and also further erodes the residual prestige of a Canada which in both World Wars achieved greatness and international respect.

Politicians and their sycophants delude themselves into believing that Canada has influence and prestige in the modern world. Compared to the Canadian international influence and prestige I witnessed in the 1950's we have become moralizing nonentities who are recognizably no longer even capable of constructing our own warships, submarines and military aircraft; and will soon become totally dependent on other nations for even our means of defence

When a terrorist crisis hits Canada - and someday it undoubtedly will - the politicians will scurry about seeking who to blame for lack of capability or preparedness. I can save them the trouble - look in the mirror! Make it a long look if you come from the NDP - the political party which has consistently opposed defence spending over the past three decades.

So this obviously dysfunctional consortia is about to approach the Governor General seeking her concurrence to form the next government? Ask yourselves how Her Excellency will be able to reconcile the fact that Canadian soldiers, of whom she is the Commander-in-Chief, are fighting, and dying for Canada in Afghanistan; while Canadian politicians are obsessed with power grabbing. Our military are not stupid - how long can they be expected to put their lives on the line under those circumstances

There was a stunning contrast yesterday between the statesmanship displayed by President-Elect Obama with his National Security Team and the complete lack of statesmanship in Canada's Parliament. A great many Canadians will have noted that contrast and be disgusted with Canada's politicians.

I realize that you are only two Members of Parliament among many. I can only hope that my words and my respect for you may assist you in bringing your colleagues to their senses.

Nigel Brodeur


Andrew said...

What's with all the Ukie bloggers being right wingers?

Pawlina said...

Thanks for your comment, Andrew.

I'm not sure, tho, how slapping simplistic labels on people who have a different view can create constructive dialogue, much less build community.

But, to each his own.

Andrew said...

It's just an observation!

Pawlina said...

Well then, with all due respect, if you're going to leave a comment, can you please stay on topic?

The topic of this post is not about the political views (perceived or real) of Ukie bloggers. It's about what I see as a cyncial betrayal of democracy by Canada's politicians.

FWIW I am none too pleased with the prime minister either. It's just that he hasn't strayed as far outside the boundaries of good governance as the others.

So be careful applying those labels, eh?

Andrew said...

Sure the good governance of philosophy that Harper shares with Bush - the Leo Strauss version of Neo-conservativism where you're too stupid to make informed decisions so the elites need to make it for us?

Or all the great things the Conservative government has done for us, like getting us into the war with Afghanistan which killed my friend last Friday (RIP Mark). Or the humanitarian effort that is declaring water to NOT be a human right so we can sell it to destitute nations as their fresh water supplies dwindle. Sure we get a % drop in our GST but our economy and environment goes under for the interests of big oil.

I didn't appreciate how you tried to link your hatred of the NDP with Holodomor denial. I'm not even an NDP supporter but I thought it was a tacky jab to link to some obscure forum post circulated around this weekend. Jack Layton even showed support for passing Canada's Holodomor Bill C469.

The Conservatives aren't great friends of the Ukrainian Canadian community either. Find me one speech where Harper acknowledges the Holodomor is a genocide. When the Liberals were in power and got $12 million for Ukrainian Internment education, the Conservatives gov't have yet to hand out dime one. What is his agenda?

So I fail to see how discussing partisan politics here creates any sort of dialogue or builds community. Your post wasn't particularly balanced, and wasn't poised to host any sort of real political discussion, but rather was a one-sided voice in an echo chamber.

Anyways I didn't come here to try and label everyone, it was a quick and funny comment and not the first one I've left on the Ukie blogosphere. But you could say there's some truth behind it as I demonstrated in my post.

Pawlina said...

Andrew, I'm so sorry for the loss of your friend. Please accept my condolences.

Thank you for your comments on my post. I had hoped you might read it with a less jaundiced eye and get the point I was making. Which is that the catalyst for this coalition was (perhaps only ostensibly) the loss of public funding for their political purses. Not exactly altruistim or patriotism in my view.

To answer your points:

Linking Harper with Bush is a tired old cliché. I was hoping for something more original from you! As for elites deciding they need to make decisions for us, I very much had that feeling when the Liberals were in power. So if that’s what you call Neo-conservatism then there’s a severe discrepancy with some of the labeling of our political parties.

Canada went into Afghanistan in 2002 and if I’m not mistaken the PM at the time was Chretien. His was, um, a Liberal govt.

As for Holodomor denial on that site I linked to, I didn’t notice any of the genocide deniers advocating for the Liberals or Conservatives, only the NDP. Not all NDP supporters are genocide deniers, obviously; the majority are decent (if misguided) people. But the fact that the party leadership doesn’t deal with these yahoos the way they and their supporters demand the Conservatives deal with their “extreme” elements is a bit hypocritical, doncha think? Especially since Layton did support the Holodomor bill. Which was exactly my point!

Your comment about the Conservative government and the Ukrainian Canadian community astonishes me. So how do you explain what happened on May 27 and 28 … in a wonderful act of non-partisanship on the part of both Liberals and Conservatives? Is it so hard to give credit where credit is due? This govt, love it or hate it, has done more for the Ukr community in 2 years than the previous ones (Lib. or Con.) did in 2 decades ... and that observation is based on 25 years of activism in this community. As for the money for internment education, it’s now in a trust fund administered by the Taras Shevchenko Foundation for educational projects. You have to apply for funds, tho; it’s not meant for random handouts.

As for my post, it’s my opinion, and I think I made that clear. Opinions by nature are biased. That's what makes them opinions! If this post was "balanced" how could tell what my opinion was? So I don’t get your point.

The comments are open on this blog so of course it’s poised to host a “real” discussion. That’s what we’re having… I hope? (I’ll ignore the jab about the echo chamber and assume it was another light-hearted joke.)

My commentary was a judgment of people’s actions, and how those actions reflect on them and their politics. It’s nothing to do with who I vote(d) for. For the record, I judge candidates on their track records and vote accordingly. As I said earlier, I am a swing voter. I have voted Liberal, Conservative, NDP and I think even once (God help me) Rhinoceros.

So I really detest these bogus labels of “right” and “left.” They are just meant to drive a wedge between people who know the difference between “right” and “wrong.”

Bottom line IMO is we have a duly elected govt and we need to allow it to govern. A minority govt does not mean they have to take orders from the losing parties. That would mean the losers are running the country, and how much sense does that make? Not much need for elections then. At any rate, Harper and his govt backed down on their boneheaded budget, so if the coalition was sincere instead of self-serving, they’d back down too and get back to work.

Everyone makes mistakes, and everyone deserves a chance to exonerate themselves. When we as a society stop allowing each other to do that, and then start to demonize those with different opinions, political views, religions, customs, etc., we lose our humanity. And that’s when a society starts down the slippery slope towards “man’s inhumanity to man.”

Ukrainians of all people should be on guard against that.

So please don’t waste your anger on my words here, my friend. I bear you no ill will. (Quite the contrary!!) I encourage you to try and convince me of the coalition’s altruistic motives, if you want … but suggest you ditch the emotional rhetoric and ad hominem attacks in favour of thoughtful arguments based on sound reasoning and solid facts. Otherwise, now that we’ve both vented our spleen, let’s leave the politicians to their work and concentrate on ours … building a strong Ukie blogosphere with opinions diverse enough to not be an echo chamber.

As you mourn the loss of your friend, Andrew, remember that it’s the freedom to safely have this kind of human interaction and civil discussion that he, and our other 100 soldiers, died to protect. Vichnaya pamyat.

Anonymous said...

Andrew, seems you have some issues.

The stupidity of the last week was a pure blatant grab for power -- since winning it at the ballot box does not seem to work.

The whole thing was a comedy of errors where it is funny how the Liberals who did not support their own leader in the last election (resulting in the greatest loss by the Liberal Party) was ready to dump him on the side of the road right after the election and then 6 weeks later want to impose him on the Canadian electorate as PM (after being overwhelmingly rejected where 75.3% voted against Dion) and now are going back to dumping him on the side of the road this week. Funny how 70% of the Canadian population is against the Coalition in recent polls.

I found it a howl when the Communist Party of Canada endorsed the new coalition. How fitting.

Gilles Duceppe was a Marxist, Layton I suspect is a firm believer of the left wing of the NDP and Dion, an out to lunch academic.

The NDP has many extreme leftists -- a hold over of the Waffle Wing of the Party which were Moscow backed during the Cold War.

The Liberals had never been friends of the Ukrainian Community. UCC was initially created by the Mackenzie King Government as a means of controlling the Ukrainian Community after WW2.

Trudeau a neo-Soviet made some nice comments about the Ukrainian community as being the same league as the FLQ when kissing the ass of Premier Kosygin of Russia in the early seventies.

Chretien promised then ignored the community for 13 years in reference to the Internment Issue. To add insult to injury launched De-naturalization & Deportation actions based on KGB fabricated documents while allowing the upper echelons of the KGB to emigrate to Canada. A former KGB general was a major donator to the Chretien campaign in the 90's.

The Martin government did the same thing with some elaborate signing ceremony that was toothless, lacked follow up of any substance, and a transparent attempt to overcome some bad optics of the Liberals initially coming out against Bill C-331.

Deifenbaker even after being PM showed up to many Ukrainian anti-soviet demonstrations.

Mulroney attempted to settle the Internment issue but was turned down by the community because of a false belief that Chretien would settle.

Harper actually settled the Internment issue once and for all. Under a Harper government the Holodomor legislation passed. It was a Conservative Senator Andreychuk that passed an earlier statement several years earlier.

I think the Conservatives have been friends of the community for years.

The Neo-Con comment is just inflammatory leftist rhetoric. Alot of that has been propagated thru the media for years and has reminded me of the type of rhetoric worthy of Soviet era propaganda found in Moscow based Pravda.

During the Orange Revolution, we used to get alot of hate e-mail from individuals which were part of the old anti-Cruise missle network. The Mitrokhin archivs laid out documentation of how that was linked with the Soviet KGB.

The Liberal Party is in disarray and can't seem to get their own house in order after years of internal civil war and scandal yet they feel it is an entitlement to seize power and govern the economy.

The Liberal Party in recent years has moved left. Many leading members include former NDP types such as Rae & Dussangh (sp?) and NDP wannabees like Kennedy. Many of the more centralist members have left and distanced themselves from the so-called Coalition (Manley & McKenna turned down the socalled wise-man position).

Contrary to the drivel you wrote it was Chretien that initially inserted Canadian troops into Afghanistan thru the introduction of JTF-2 in 2001/2002 and it was Martin that escalated the involvement of Canadian troops. Harper just made sure they were properly equipped after 13 years of stripping the Canadian Armed Forces of equipment and resources under 2 successive Liberal regimes and diverting funds to favorite projects such as the Sponsorship Scandal, HRDC boondoggle, Gun Registry boondoggle etc etc.

Contrary to what you said, Afghanistan is an action initiated by the UN and carried out by NATO.

The oil-line/story is just leftist rhetoric. If you want oil stories, look into Chretien and how he represents the Chinese National Oil company, his mansion in China after many Team Canada missions exporting skilled Canadian jobs & technology to a totalitarian regime -- plus Martin moving Canada Steamship lines HQ to Shanghai China to avoid paying Canadian taxes even after receiving 160 million Canadian in taxpayer money while he was serving in government. Yes ethics -- or lack of them.

Funny how most of the world's greatest atrocities where committed by believers of Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Pol Pot, Ethiopian Marxists, Mao & Mugabi. I suggest you read the Black Book of Communism. Funny how they all believed on imposing governments because they believed they were right and entitled to power.


Pawlina said...

Thanks, Slavko, for your comment. You've just strengthened my belief that the left/right labelling is bogus.

However, I now genuinely regret having broken my rule about posting political commentary here. For one, it took the spotlight off Admiral Brodeur's letter, which was far more eloquent than any comments I could make.

For another, it has diverted energy away from far more productive pursuits.

But most of all, because what you've revealed here is so depressing. Of all people, ex-PM Martin skipping out on paying corporate taxes in Canada? I'm speechless. And Canadian elites so cozy with KGB operatives for so long? OMG.

It's enough to make me believe that perhaps ignorance is bliss after all.

Ukemonde said...

Hi Paulette, your comment, "As for the third member of this destructive, self-serving troika, all I can say is that as a Canadian nationalist, I have never had much use for the Blockheads."
I have always been a Liberal at heart, and you may not agree with many things they have done, but at least we had a surplus during their tenure.
Even with the so called scandals, that were thrown the way of the gullable public, where has this surplus disapeared to? Abracadabra.......
As for the Bloc, even though they might not be understood in greater Canada, I would vote for them before voting Conservative. Hmmm food for though from you seperatist Quebecer!!!!

Pawlina said...

Hmmm.... very interesting, Roman!

My gido is probably spinning in his grave over my flexible political allegiance ... he was a lifelong Liberal, as is my Dad. (Although at 78 it appears he's broadening his view.)

Living out here in the west, tho, I have seen that Conservatives are not the evil monsters many in the east seem to think they are... maybe kind of like your view about the Bloc (which I have to admit I don't understand). And having analysed all the parties, at this juncture in time I find this batch of Conservatives, while far from perfect, the best of the lot.

But while it's too bad about this east/west alienation thing going with Canadian politics, it is nice that our common Ukrainian roots manage to bring us together in spite of it.

I guess for all its messiness, democracy is still the best political system going. And after just observing, from the safety of 75 years in time, how destructive one-party rule can be, who, more than we, would understand how precious democracy is?

Anonymous said...

In reference to ukemonde and Pawlina:

My family also has roots in the west and still does. I was working in Alberta when the NEP (National Energy Policy) was introduced by Trudeau. It destroyed the economy in Western Canada which did not recover till 5-6 years ago.

The NEP was originally (in theory but not in practice) was supposed to make the energy industry Canadian controlled, but instead destroyed all the independent Canadian energy companies and make them takeover material for the multinationals. I suspect it was punishment for not voting Liberal. If you remember at that time you could not find a Liberal MP west of the Ontario border. (funny there are only 7 at present and I suspect they will not survive the next election).

You have this troika & Elizabeth May (to make the fourth horseman of the apocalypse) :) targeting the oil industry and the tar sands projects for destruction -- in essence NEP version 2.

The west always suffered under the Liberals. Out west there is always a can-do mentality (lets roll up our sleeves and do it) while what I have witnessed in Ontario and I suspect Quebec also is a mentality that we should get the Government to fund it or not do it all.

I understand why the west does not trust the Liberals. The west finally gets a western PM and it is 3 men from quebec that want to take that power away considering for the last 40 years all PM's have been from Quebec (except for the 40 minutes of Joe Clark).

Andrew said...

Well I've outdated my discussion because of a busy work schedule. I can't contribute to the latest topic, I'm not from the West and I wasn't even alive in the Trudeau era.

Ukemonde said...

I found this very interesting comment on a blog, which I would not have writen any better. For your enjoyment Mr. Slavko:

Douglas wroteon December 5, 2008 at 5:53pm

Today, we witnessed an attack on our democracy and a dangerous precedent was established.

Our Governor-General had 4 choices open to her today:
1. Prorogue;
2. Call an immediate election;
3. Ask the Coalition to take over the reigns of government; or
4. Tell the PM to go back to Parliament and to: "Make it work!"

Of these options, our Governor-General should have opted for the last.

Telling the PM to go back to Parliament would have forced him to face a confidence measure, thus proving to her, and to all Canadians, that he did in fact, enjoy the confidence of the House of Commons.

If the PM officially lost the confidence of the House, THEN according to form, the Governor-General could have chosen between an immediate election or asking the Coalition to attempt to form government.

Instead, our Governor-General opted to yield to the PM's request for proroguation.

Proroguation was never intended to assist a PM to avoid a confidence measure. It was intended to give MPs time to cool off in cases of political stalemates.

In this case, there was no political stalemate, as all political parties in opposition represented in the House without exception had agreed, in writing, to provide stable government for at least the next 18 months.

The Green Party's endorsement of the Coalition greatly matters. As a recipient of federal funding, their voice makes the loss of confidence in the PM unanimous among opposing parties.

In this case, proroguation was used as a means, for the first time ever, to allow a PM who once campaigned vociferously on accountability and transparancy to temporarily avoid being answerable to the Canadian public.

Following a nasty session of Parliament, and an even nastier electoral campaign, the PM spoke of the pressing need, in the name of the economy, for all to be more concilliatory and cooperative.

Then, to usher in this new era of collaboration, the PM decides that the solution to our economic woes is to financially kneecap the Opposition (as well as remove equal pay for equal work of equal value as a fundamental social convention and to take away public servants' right to strike).

In what universe would destroying the Opposition, thus making Canada a de facto one-party state possibly be good for either the economy or democracy?

THIS, was the power grab.

Today, the PM stated that NOW he wanted to work together.

But here's the rub. If someone tried to stab you to death, you'd be angry too if that person had the gall to later ask you to testify on their behalf in order to help them avoid going to jail.

The PM has systematically shown that he is perfectly willing to subvert the rules of Canadian democracy to suit his needs. The list of recent past attacks on basic democracy made by our PM is long, and includes:
1. If proven true, an attempt to bribe his way into an election by buying Chuck Cadman's vote; and
2. If proven true, an attempt to buy an election through illegal spending, and then having the gall to refund to the Conservative Party of Canada, 60% of the money they overspent.
3. Systematically and incrementally chipping away at the confidence of Canadians in their institutions. According to the PM, Canadians shouldn't trust the Governor-General, the Constitution, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the public service, the Judiciary, the Supreme Court of Canada, Elections Canada, the media, the Opposition, Human Rights Commissions, and most importantly, the Senate; basically each and every possible check and balance to absolute power.
4. Poaching David Emerson before he served even a second in the House as a Liberal and then ignored calls for a new vote;
5. Attempting to change the status of the Canadian Wheat Board;
6. The environmental measures voted into law in the last Parliament that were ignored by the PM;
7. Potentially exposing our soldiers to charges under the Geneva Conventions by arguably making them complicit in torture;
8. Flouting his own fixed election date law;
9. Calling an election in order to avoid having the day in court he asked for on the Cadman issue, and;
10. The improper use of the RCMP as his media relations staff.

When you add these to his recent moves, the Opposition is clearly right when it says it has no reason to yet again give the PM the benefit of the doubt that he can be a statesman.

If there is any lingering doubt about this, one only has to look at the PM and his caucus' recent pronouncements essentially stating that hard core separatists, sovereignists, and socialists are traitors and shouldn't EVER have a role to play in government despite the fact they are Canadian citizens, entitled to all the right, privileges, and responsabilities as any other.

In addition, the PM has essentially called all the soft nationalists and disaffected federalists who also support the Bloc Québecois alongside sovereignists and hard core separatist, evil.

These have been among some of the most vile things to have been said by a Canadian government about its own citizens is a very long time.

He has clearly come out as saying: "I refuse to be the Prime Minister of ALL Canadians!"

It is also quite worrisome that we have a PM who is so inept and incompetent tha he either has no knowledge whatsover of the way our system of government operates or deliberately lies to the electorate about the way it operates.

All proroguation does is give the PM time to influence the vote of about the 20 or so MPs he needs to survive a confidence vote, find another legal or procedural way to delay facing a confidence measure and, mount an extremely divisive and high-intensity propaganda campaign.

The Governor-General indulged the PM just a few short months ago when he claimed Parliament was dysfunctional, despite having the longest minority in history and passing most of his legislation, by giving him an election even though it went against, at least, the spirit of his fixed election date law.

Canadians respected that decision.

However, this time, there is clearly enough evidence to show that the PM not only no longer enjoys the confidence of the House, but also that he is not fit for the job.

At this time in history, Canada needs a statesman who is able to build consensus and establish entente with people who have views that differ, and can do so quite strongly, from their own.

Our PM has proven beyond any doubt that he is not that person.

With all respect that is due to our Governor-General, I truly believe that she has been severely ill-advised.

Generally, Canadians are quiet, respectful, even apathetic.

I wonder what would if this time, just this once, we all stood up -- much like the Orange Revolution in Kyiv, Ukraine -- mass protested in every way possible and refused to stop until the Conservative Party of Canada asked our PM to quit and our Governor-General heard our voice?

I wonder if this time around, some lawyer out there would accept to take on a pro bono legal case against the current government for fraud?

Are Canadians angry enough this time to peacefully -- I repeat peacefully -- make it very clear that this decision is unacceptable.

I'd be willing to play a key role in such a move if there are experienced activists and fellow Canadians out there able to help put it together.

Anyone with me?

If so, join my Facebook group "Canada's Orange Revolution: It's Time":

Andrew said...

Wow people are on Facebook? The bloggers are evloving :)
Add me

Pawlina said...

Hi Andrew,

I'm with you on the work schedule... my timing for this post kind of sucked.

I kind of suspected the Trudeau era was before your time. He kind of did a number on the west, and some of us Ukes tend to be able to hold a grudge for a long time.

Since you've never been out west,I heartily recommending taking a trip out here. You have a standing invitation to visit me ... if you still want to talk to me, that is. :-) If you need a place to stay, we have a guest room that is empty most of the time.

Andrew said...

I have been to the west before, but my I was born and raised in Toronto, and my family hails from here and Montreal.

But that's a nice offer, hope it's still good when those Olympic games roll around :)

When are you jumping on the Facebook bandwagon, ever figure out Gmail chat?

Anonymous said...

As to me - it is all fine what is happening in both Canada and Ukraine with coalition. Is it the democratic regimes after all, huh? If it is they shall appeal for public support time to time. In Ukraine they for it every couple months, in Canada couple decades - so only frequency is different. But I know that problem it is when politicians have no need for public for support - real problem guys. Watch those movies about USSR... Beside all that it is simple politics - and I like such vibrant politics. May be because I've seen different like USSR from inside.

Pawlina said...

Roman, I'm afraid I'll have to pass on this Canadian Orange Revolution led by Douglas on Facebook. His argument is full of fallacies that I could easily tear apart if I had the time ... and my philosophy texts handy. ;-)

But a couple really jumped out at me.

Why would Dona Cadman run for the Conservatives if the leader of the party bribed her husband? At any rate, the police have determined there is no basis for that accusation, so it's curious why Harper’s opponents don't move on to find something more airtight.

As for the Canadian Wheat Board, it kept western farm families from prospering for decades, including mine. So I see no problem with dismantling it.

I could go on, but will spare you. :-) From this discussion, it’s clear that folks in different parts of the country have very different priorities as well as perspectives. Which is perfectly normal!

From my perspective, those who support today’s Conservatives support a change in the status quo, and those who oppose them want to protect the status quo. And to me that confirms what I read in my poli sci text … that the definitions of the words “liberal” and “conservative” are the total opposite of how the words are commonly used in contemporary western society.

Pawlina said...

Andrew, I am in Facebook. So yes, let's hook up.

And no, I still haven't figured out Twitter or Gmail chat, but probably will if you stay on my case. So if you don't mind, I don't.(Did I mention that I am the world's worst procrastinator?) :-)

Pawlina said...

Stan, thanks so much for sharing that perspective.

Yes, there certainly are similarities between Ukrainian and Canadian politics, especially right now!

I suppose one benefit of the current "crisis" is that it seems to be getting more (and younger) Canadians politically active and aware ... and catching up to Ukrainians in their level of political involvement.

Andrew said...

All are welcome to add me to Facebook.

To wrap up this discussion, Canadians elect representatives, not leaders. We should be lobbying to them to get stuff done. I am lucky to live in the riding of Borys Wrzesnewskyj who does marvelous stuff for the Ukrainian Canadian community, but you should still be getting together with yours and demanding what you want out of your representative.

Pawlina said...

Bingo, Andrew!

We all (including me!) would be much more productive lobbying our reps rather than taking potshots at party leaders.

Doing that can also help end the political polarization amongst people, which is so detrimental to a healthy, functioning democracy.

Well said, my wise young friend.

See you on Facebook!

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